accordin test al schmidt

Al Schmidt is Pennsylvania’s secretary of state, and, although each county runs its own election, Schmidt’s office oversees election administration in the state. This transcript is from Schmidt’s appearance at the Majestic Theater in Gettysburg at an event called “Unpacking the Vote: A Q&A with Election Experts.” The event was put on by The Eisenhower Institute and WITF, and received funding support from America Amplified. 

The transcript has been edited for clarity and conciseness by Scott Blanchard, WITF’s director of journalism. You can listen to Schmidt’s appearance in this unedited sound file.  

About 65 people attended the event and had the chance to ask Schmidt questions. He began with a short opening statement.

SCHMIDT: “…(Elections) have never been more safe and secure with a voter verifiable paper ballot record of every vote that’s cast in Pennsylvania. Whether you vote by a hand-marked paper ballot or use a ballot marking device in some counties, you end up with a … verifiable paper ballot record of every vote that’s cast that, as was just discussed, is used in not one but two audits after every election to ensure that the results are accurate.” 

• QUESTION: “I wondered if you would feel comfortable speaking to the situation that occurred in Fulton County in the 2020 election – how that situation evolved and what can be done to maybe prevent a repeat of that situation in a future election.” 

  SCHMIDT: “So, Fulton County had an issue after 2020 where the county allowed outside entities to have access to their voting system. Because that’s compromising the security of their voting system, the Pennsylvania Department of State decertified those devices.”

  Schmidt noted there has been litigation related to the issue. 

  “(Recently) there was another court decision which has ordered the county to pay the Pennsylvania Department of State and the one voting system, more than a million dollars, so far, in legal services. And that tab is running.  

  “The county has a total budget of, I believe, about seven million dollars. So that’s, a million dollars is a lot of money no matter what county you’re in, but that’s a lot of money. And while I feel it’s really important to have accountability in this process when it comes to accusations with no basis in fact that result in election systems being compromised, I also want to be mindful – it’s taxpayers in that county who will largely be on the hook for the decisions that were made.”  

• QUESTION: “(My question is) about the mail in ballots and that may be discounted if they have the incorrect date or are not signed. What are people doing and what will get it restricted? And  is there something else that … may kick this all out?”

  SCHMIDT: “That’s a really excellent question, and it’s consumed a lot of our attention and county attention and voter attention and media attention and all the rest.

  “Just to update the background on the question, there has been litigation, as you might have seen about whether mail in ballots should be counted or not if the voter signed but did not hand- date the declaration envelope. The law says, and the way the law is written by the legislature is very clear, it says voter must sign and date it. 

  “That being said, zero counties out of 67 use that date for any purpose whatsoever other than to see that it’s hand dated by the voter. Counties know when they mail the ballot out and they know when they receive it back. So that’s why it’s been involved in federal and state litigation going back and forth over this issue.

  “A Commonwealth Court decision not that long ago found that those ballots should be counted, since that date serves really no purpose. But the Supreme Court ruled on Friday that there was a jurisdictional issue with the Commonwealth Court’s decision or the party’s ability to bring that case to the Commonwealth Court.

  “So the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania did not rule on the issue one way or the other. … so I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes back to commonwealth court and sort of takes into account the jurisdictional issues raised by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, but we’re not sort of like waiting around for courts to make those decisions.

  “The law is clear and we clearly communicate to counties that if the voter did not sign and hand date it, the vote can’t be counted unless it’s hand-dated within the range of when the ballot was sent out.”

  Schmidt says they looked at data on this mistake on mail-in ballots. He said 1.4 percent of ballots from voters 70 years old and older were not counted because the voter didn’t correctly date the outer envelope. Frequently, they write in their birthdate.

  “Obviously, the ballot was not sent on, you know, January 8th, 1946. It’s not a question of whether it’s an eligible voter. It’s not a question of whether it’s their ballot and they voted it or that it was returned on time. But the law is clear. And right now, the law is that ballot can’t be counted unless it’s hand-dated by the voter.

  “We might see litigation in the weeks ahead. The window is really closing fast for decisions on all of that. We were disappointed by that court decision the other day.”

• QUESTION: “What plans are in place to stop efforts to derail certification of electoral results by the political party of the losing candidate?”  

  SCHMIDT: Schmidt noted that in 2022, three counties did not certify their election results by the deadline. 

  “So the Pennsylvania Department of State took them to court. It took some number of days and then they were compelled to certify the election results.

  “It’s pretty clear in the election code. You are required to certify those results. If you’re aware of voter fraud or allegations of voter fraud, if you’re aware of any evidence of election irregularities or all the rest, you don’t ignore it. You refer it to law enforcement for investigation and for the courts to determine. But the counties, it’s very clear, are required to do that certification process.  In the event that there are counties that don’t fulfill their ministerial responsibility in certifying the election results, then I would expect that we would immediately seek a court order requiring them to do their job, which would be to certify the election results in that county.”

  “I think this is the first time I’ve quoted Donald Rumsfeld in my life, but, I don’t entirely understand what the end game of that would be – like, a county not certifying would not, in the end, result in some other magical thing happening that’s going to change the outcome.

  “The only result of that would be a chaotic environment, where you do have all this sort of playing out where you do have questions or an opportunity for people to continue to try to undermine confidence in election results despite there being no evidence, assuming there is no evidence of voter fraud or election irregularities at all.”

• QUESTION: “Are there any extra or renewed efforts to address polling-place intimidation?” 

  SCHMIDT: “…the Shapiro administration set up something called the election threat task force. It’s really brought about from a lot of the lessons that were learned, especially in 2020 when it came to threats of violence or intimidation, targeting voters, targeting election workers, whether at the polling place or at the county level.

  “So that a task force, which I lead, meets regularly to make sure that everyone knows what everybody else’s responsibilities are and the lines of communication are open. So in the event any of that ugliness that we experienced in 2020 returns, everyone knows what everybody’s responsibilities are.

  “And so that law enforcement can do its job to investigate. 

  “Frequently, at the county level, especially if the district attorney is not on the ballot, usually the district attorney’s office is the first one sort of on the scene to respond to any threats targeting voters, voter intimidation or anything else like that. I know I worked closely in Philadelphia with the district attorney’s office in multiple administrations (and) with U.S. Attorney’s office (and) the Attorney General’s office. (So if) there were threats targeting voters or efforts to intimidate them or threats, violence or intimidation toward poll workers or anything else like that, that we’re prepared to respond to make sure that we could defend their right to vote. 

  “In Philadelphia County alone, where I was election commissioner or city commissioner for 10 years, there are 1,703 precincts with 8,000 election board workers and 1.1 million voters. And unless there’s an issue with wheelchair accessibility, that polling place is otherwise required to be in that precinct so that a voter could walk down the street or walk a couple of blocks to that rec center, to that church basement, to that school so that they can cast their vote.